Welcome to Cloudlandia

Ep128: Balancing Health and Habit

May 15th, 2024

In this episode of Welcome to Cloudlandia, I reminisce about our wonderful experience at the recent Cloudlandia conference at Canyon Ranch in Tucson facilitated by the legendary Joe Polish.

We discuss the importance of maintaining an active lifestyle through routines like DEXA scans. Our conversation explores cultivating daily habits that balance productivity and creativity without overcommitting.

Wrapping up, we tackle the nuances of time management as entrepreneurs and commitment levels' impact on execution. Discover how dependability and prudent social media actions shape future opportunities, drawing from Kevin O'Leary's wisdom.


  • Dan and I delve into the significance of the series' theme song and its role in their listening routine, based on Chris's reflections.
  • We discuss Chris's trip to Tucson and their perspective on the moderated conference experience led by Joe Polish at Canyon Ranch.
  • We highlight the importance of maintaining consistency and improvement over time, drawing upon the eight profit activators as an example.
  • Dan analyzes a typical day at Canyon Ranch through Chris's recount, emphasizing the value of health checks like the DEXA scan for body composition.
  • We explore the paradox of having ample free time yet facing a lack of productivity due to multiple options.
  • Dan and I discuss the various levels of commitment and how they influence the ability to complete tasks, especially in the entrepreneurial environment.
  • The chapter on trust, money, and social media is explored, examining the challenges of relying on unpredictable and the personal ethos of dependability.
  • We assess the intertwined nature of trust, money, and social media, referencing Kevin O'Leary's perspective on the potential long-term impacts of public actions.
  • reflect on Chris's strategy for managing time and commitments, including his rule against traveling for marketing purposes.
  • The episode concludes with us having a candid conversation about procrastination, commitment, and the challenge of executing tasks without external scaffolding.




(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Dan: Welcome to Cloudlandia. You know, the theme song to this series might be the song that I've listened to more in my life than any other song.

Dean: Oh, that's funny I like it.

Dan: I was going through the archives and I said you know, I don't think I've listened to any song as much as I have this song. That's so funny. Yeah, I love it Good music though. It's good music.

Dean: And good message.

Dan: And it, I love it, it's good music, though.

Dean: It's good music, yes, and good message.

Dan: And it's good message.

Dean: It's always a reminder. So welcome back. You've been on the road, arizona.

Dan: Yes, how was that? Oh, it was great. We were in Tucson for about five days at Canyon Ranch, and the weather was absolutely superb. In Fahrenheit terms it was roughly about 75.

Dean: Yeah, perfect right.

Dan: Clear, cool nights, blue skies, no rain and the genius was great. Joe is really in the sweet spot.

Joe Polish is really in the sweet spot because he's controlling it now with his interviews and I think that's terrific, because he had six different guests and if they're just giving a presentation, it can be from bad to really great. But what Joe provides, he just does a framework and of course he directs them with questions and he knows the audience, he knows the speakers, so he's doing a great job of moderating and I think that's a terrific move.

Dean: I like the new setup too that he's got there, the stage with the kind of environment that's good, nice, the kind of environment that's good, Nice.

Dan: Well, let's Proves that, if you just stick with some things long enough, you know it turns really superb after a while if you keep making improvements.

Dean: Wow, I can't say enough about that being true. I was really. I've been thinking that about the. I've been going back looking at the eight profit activators as the example of how long you know I would say I've been working on this for 30 years, unconsciously, and the last 20 of it consciously and the distinctions, the reliable, that I've generated from all the ways that we've applied, all the number of data sets and iterations and different applications that are still like, it's just kind of great. It's a shortcut to really identifying what needs to be done, and every new iteration of a durable playbook is adding new distinctions. So much certainty in the things. I just can't wait to see, you know, the next 20 years of that real like dedicated application, because it's not going anywhere, you know.

Dan: Yeah, I think you know I'm sort of a stick with things for a long time.

Dean: Yes, yes.

Dan: And I mean, if people are telling you they're getting value out of it, their checks indicate yes, yes, things going in a workshop and I'm, you know, I'm always seeing new things and and everything like that. But you know, we were. I was just reflecting that this is 35 years for the program, the workshop program, and it's pretty much not too different in 2024 than it was in 1989.

I mean 2024 than it was in 1989. I mean it's basically you're doing thinking processes, you're chatting with each other individually, you're having general discussions, there's visuals to represent what's going to happen and all the money's up front.

Dean: Yeah, I mean, listen, I call those things durable contexts and what you've got there, like the strategic coach program and the workshops, it's not unsimilar to what 60 Minutes has going for it, the. It's been the same context in sunday night 7 pm tick, tick, tick three long form stories on the most fascinating things in the zeitgeist right now. That's never going to get old. That's really. You know, it's like the same thing. You look at quarterly meetings gathered with your peers thinking about your thinking in a group of people who are thinking the same way. So I think that's the cheat code is understanding what those durable contexts are and allowing the content to fit within that.

You know.

Dan: Yeah, there was a great old parody, I don't know 20 years ago, and it's the new marketing manager for Coors Beer and he's saying yeah, and he's in a meeting with Mr Coors the current Mr. Coors and he says yeah.

He said yeah, we've done a lot of research and you know we feel that the color that we've been using for the labels of Coors beer are not up to speed with what people really like and therefore we're suggesting that we switch the color of the labels. And Mr Coors says I like the color we've got. He says yes sir, yes sir, Mr Coors.

Dean: Yes, sir, we're going to go with the color.

Dan: And he says we feel that you know the typeface that we're using, the Coors typeface, is from the. It's really from the 19th century. And he said so we're suggesting this new typeface. And Mr Gores says I like the typeface the way it is.

Dean: He says yes, mr Gores.

Dan: And then he says we're thinking that the bottle is very in old shape, you know, and it's not really up to date with modern design and therefore we're recommending this new shape of the bottle and we want to change the color of the bottle too. And he says to Mr Kors says I like the old bottle and I like the color we've got. Yes, mr Kors, okay, we're all set to go on our new campaign right, that sounds like your conversation when they wanted to change the fonts right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like Helvetica.

We're going to stick with.

Dean: Helvetica Awesome, I love it. Well, Dan, what was your? What's a day in the life in Canyon Ranch? You've been going there now for as long as I've known you.

Dan: Yeah, 1990 was our first trip, so this is our 55th visit and many years. We've gone twice, twice. Well, it's a nice place, it's very congenial, it's very comfortable and it's well kept up. And, you know, the food is good. They have terrific massage therapists. I mean, they have dozens and dozens of massage therapists, some of them, one of them we have we've been seeing her for 25 years, you know, and there's just a nice quality. It's very predictable, there's no tension, it's very laid back, and so I get up in the morning and, you know, once we're set to go, I'll go out for a walk, and they have a two mile loop around the property oh wow and one of them is quite a challenging hill, okay.

So what I could do is I go out and I start working the hill from top to bottom and I do that. I do that for about a half hour. You know.

Dean: Up and down, you know gets the heart rate up yeah and now with my repaired knee I was gonna ask do you feel?

Dan: the difference. Yeah, yeah, it's. Uh, there's a bit tenderness about especially coming down it's going up is fine, it's coming down. That puts more stress on your knee right and then then we go for breakfast and there's two choices they have sort of a very informal cafe and then they have a restaurant with full menu. And then I do a lot of reading. I read the Wall Street Journal on six days of the week and Babs and I just agree when we're going to rendezvous for lunch.

Dean: She does a lot more.

Dan: She does a lot more consultations. She does more investigating new things, which eventually I introduced to some of them. But she's much more active. She gets more tests than I do and I do one test probably every year for 20 years since the body composition. Oh, yeah, like a DEXA scan, right, right, dexa scan, yeah, and it's the gold standard as far as I can tell. You know, and then you compare and I got 20 years of records and you know, need some more care.

Things are okay here and you know you go there and then the afternoon I'll have at least one massage a day and I do that. But I do a lot of reading. I've got my detective stories, my thrillers, my international geopolitical thrillers, and you know I'll wander around around and I get my steps in, I get my three rings on my apple watch bin and we meet for dinner. We usually do it pretty early and we you know and come home and I'll check the news, internet news and read some articles and then I'm off to bed and multiply that by five days.

Dean: Do it again.

Dan: Yeah, and you feel revived.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: But I, you know, I mean at after 35, 50 years of coaching and 35 years of the company and the program. I don't really get that stressed out for my work. Right, I mean you know I'm in my unique ability. I have certain things to do every day.

Dean: There's deadlines.

Dan: There's always lots of projects going, and so it's not like to go on to free days, which Canyon Ranch always. Isn't that much of a change for me from? The way I operate on my workday. I'm never doing more than three projects for the day. I have lots of time between projects. I only hold myself accountable for getting three things done a day. My scheduler, Becca, always makes sure I have at least a half hour between anything that involves a meeting with someone else.

And yeah, so that's pretty well that I mean. But I get a lot done. I mean I'm more productive at 80 than I was at 60.

Dean: So yeah, that's my thing. How much of your time during the week like when you're on a typical home week, work week is scheduled like synchronous and scheduled with other people, versus you saying these are the three things I'm going to work on, or are they always involving other people?

Dan: No, I have days when it's just me getting my part of a project done that has to be then sent off to somebody else. But I have days when there's no meetings. The vast majority of them are Zoom meetings, not in-person meetings.

Dean: And I have a regular schedule the workshops are in the schedule.

Dan: The two-hour catch-up calls that we've introduced for Zoom they're in the schedule. I have podcasts they're scheduled. The only thing that's left up to me is creating new tools.

Dean: Right.

Dan: You know, and the other thing is new chapters of the current book and that goes off, and then we have recording sessions and so on. But I would say that if I look ahead at a year, 85% of that year is going to be totally known on the first day of the year.

Dean: Really, yeah, yeah, like with scheduled slots for when it's happening, yeah.

Dan: Very interesting. Yeah, and I've introduced a new rule in 79, that I will never travel for marketing purposes.

Dean: Right, exactly.

Dan: Yeah, and I will never give a speech. I'll do an interview, but I won't do a speech.

Dean: Right or.

Dan: I'll put an audience through a thinking tool, but I won't give a speech, so my days of speechifying are in the past, right, right, right. And I won't give any speech for publicity purposes, I only give a speech for marketing purpose. I mean, I'll only do a public, you know, presentation and a movie tool only for marketing purpose. I'll only speak to audiences that are qualified clients, qualified prospects. Yeah, yeah, and that's basically an easygoing tourist's life.

Dean: Yeah, exactly, I forgot, that's another thing.

Dan: You have a birthday in about three days, right?

Dean: That's right. May 10th that's exactly right may 10th.

Dan: It's yes, right yeah, so that's what is that friday?

Dean: that is friday, yeah, yeah. So that's that one little thing, that one week of time where I'm only 21 years younger than you. I catch up on you for a little bit and then you take over again.

Dan: Yeah, I have to give you a teaser before I frustrate you.

Dean: Okay, let's hear it.

Dan: Yeah, no, it's 20.

Dean: You get to be 21 years younger. I got you Right, right, right.

Dan: Then it gets taken away from you. Yes, exactly, just when.

Dean: I think I'm catching up. Yeah, yeah, a little boost. That's so funny. Yeah, I've forgotten that we're both Taurus. That's something we are very similar. I think that's why we have such an easy friendship. I think because we're essentially a lot alike, I mean our whole being.

Dan: I think we're essentially lazy luxury-loving innovators.

Dean: Lazy luxury-loving innovators, I like it.

Dan: That's pretty true.

Dean: It's the truth. You're absolutely right. Yes, yes, yes, in the best sense of all of those words.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think both of us exhibit sort of a lifestyle that's different from what we learned when we were growing up.

Dean: That's true, yeah, I don't know what instilled it in us, but it was self-discovered. Really, Nobody taught us this.

Dan: And we both like shortcuts.

Dean: We both have a passion.

Dan: It's very interesting I haven't actually driven a car in the city of Toronto in easily 25 years.

Dean: I think that's amazing yeah.

Dan: And you know I have a limousine company that handles all my scheduled stuff. And then Babs. You know we're very much in sync in terms of what we like to do for entertainment and for socializing we're very much in sync, and what it's allowed me to do is to really notice shortcuts in the city because I'll see. You know, I'm a real map addict. I like maps.

And I'll see something I said. I wonder, if you go through this alleyway here and you come out here, whether it's a shortcut when there's busy times and I got about 20, 25 of them in the city that Google doesn't know about.

Dean: Oh boy, okay, yeah, you've got the knowledge.

Dan: Yeah, I got. I've got the knowledge. Google stays within the framework of what are considered official streets. You know they it doesn't, and probably they have to do that.

I mean, that's not, it's not their job to be doing it and and so one of the limousine drivers said, you know, he went to the president of the company, the owner, and he says, you know, we should have mr sullivan up here, he knows more shortcuts than anyone I've ever seen and and the owner of the company. Why would we want the trip to be any shorter?

Dean: Unbelievable, huh.

Dan: Isn't that?

Dean: funny, that's the best. Why would we want it to be any shorter?

Dan: No, and I can see his point of view, I guess.

Dean: but wow, I can't tell you, dan, how much I'm looking forward to being in Toronto.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Really am.

Dan: Now you're coming in. When are you coming in?

Dean: On a.

Dan: Monday.

Dean: The workshop's on a Monday the workshop is on Monday, right the 20th, so I think I'm going to come in probably the week before. I'll probably come in. I may come in at the very latest the 17th, and so I would be available for a table 10 or whatever table they assign us on the 18th, if that works in your schedule, and then I'm going to do a breakthrough blueprint on the 27th, 28th, 29th. So I'm going to stay for at least two weeks.

Dan: Are you staying at the Hazleton I?

Dean: believe so. Yes, there are the four seasons.

Dan: one of the two yeah, because our wonderful French restaurant in Yorkville is gone.

Dean: I know exactly.

Dan: Jacques Bistro.

You know, they basically packed it in at the end of the previous year, so the COVID year started in March 2020. So right at the end of 2019, they packed it in and their son you know, their son and daughter were. I was leaving this was right at the end of the 2019, I was there and I was going down the steps and he said Mr Sullivan, do you mind if I have your picture taken and we're putting together sort of, you know, a panorama of all the longtime guests? And I said sure, and then they they always closed down for the month of January, july too, yeah, yeah, in January, and they never came back. After January it was closed, and so I don't think they were sensing anything, but I think they had just more or less packed it in without telling anybody Because it's all gone. Now it's some other business. It was a very small restaurant, I know because it's all gone now and it's some other business.

Dean: You know it's. It was a very small restaurant.

Dan: You know I mean they may do, for they may do for almost 40 years with about at most they might've had 40 seats in the restaurant. That wasn't a very big restaurant Right. But let's Select is good, let's Select they sold. The two partners sold. They had been with it for 40 years and they sold and it's. You know the menu is smaller. There's some things not on the menu that I liked, but you know it's great.

Dean: Have you been to? There's the new French restaurant in Yorkville, off of you know where, if you go Bel Air basically that where Bel Air meets Yorkville if you continue across Yorkville in that little alleyway, there's a new French restaurant. I think. Yeah, they didn't last. No, they didn't Okay. No, cause they came in just before.

Dan: COVID right, yeah, they didn't last. Oh, they didn't Okay. No, because they came in just before COVID right? No, they didn't last at all. Okay, yeah, and I'm just trying to think.

Dean: Sophia Is there another? Sophia is another one. I think it's new, but I haven't experienced it.

Dan: Yeah.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, you know, there were a lot of casualties from the, you know.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Actually, Yorkville has gotten a lot less interesting because restaurants have gone out and retail stores have come in oh interesting. It doesn't have the same entertainment value that it did.

Dean: Interesting, I may have to rethink Where's the new? Where would be a suitable place for a guy?

Dan: like me, the Hazleton is really good. I mean, they're one restaurant there is really good, but you know I would go for Le Select, just for old time's sake.

Dean: Of course, yeah, yeah.

Dan: And we'll put it in the menu. I have a whole bunch of medical things. Usually on Saturday I go to my biofeedback program.

Dean: I go to osteo-stron and I get my hair cut. Okay.

Dan: But I can leave off the two medical things that day and just get my haircut.

Dean: Okay, fair enough.

Dan: And we'll, yeah, put it in for 1130. Would that be good? That's fantastic.

Dean: I love it.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, it's not table 10 anymore, but we can get the same table, yeah, and that's where we.

Dean: That's where we, that's where we launched the podcast series the joy of procrastination was launched right there.

Dan: Yeah, what are you thinking about procrastination now, after all these?

Dean: years. I think it's amazing. I mean, I think this whole idea of the you know as a superpower, I think it's absolutely true. What I still I'll tell you what I'm personally working on right now is my ability to do what I say I'm going to do. At the time, I say I'm going to do it without any external scaffolding, and I'm realizing that. You know, I'm just now eight weeks into the health program that I'm doing with Jay and Team Dean all together there, and what I've found is that's working really well because it's created the external scaffolding and support and exoskeleton that allows me to stay on track, or create that bobsled run, as Ned Halliwell would say.

And so now my attention in May here now is turning to myself. I have, Dan, an abundance of time. I have, all of you know, a consulting client that I talk to on Tuesdays at one. I have a my real estate accelerator group on Wednesdays at three, and then on alternate Thursdays, I have my co-agent call and my email mastery call, and so, all told, it's four to six hours a week of synchronous and scheduled requirement. Right, Then I basically have 100% of all of my time available, and I do. I've always sort of you know having free time leads to having the ability to be creative and do things, but what I find is I often end up in a paralysis of opportunity.

you know of that I could do this I could do this, I could do this, I could all of those intentions. You know that I could do this, I could do this, I could do this, I could all of those intentions you know. But I very rarely get anything done. Fits and spurts right, and so that's what I'm really kind of. I'm really trying to figure out the formula for me on that.

Dan: That's why I was curious about you know, you know, I would say this that I, if I didn't have obligations, or commitments. Let's say commitments, yeah, like I have, I have commitments. I wouldn't be very productive just on my own Right. I mean, I won't do something just because I want to do something. To see it, it has to involve my team and it has to involve my clients, otherwise I won't do it Right. And so I always have deadlines related to those two parties, and I really like deadlines.

I really like deadlines because, you know, and usually I get it done just before it's needed. And the reason I like that is if I just have enough time to actually and I don't have any more time, I just have enough time to get something done, then I'm totally focused. If I've got more than enough time to get something done, then I'm totally focused. If I've got more than enough time to get something done, then I can be distracted by something else Me too.

Dean: I realized I started thinking about a progression of the way things are going to get done. Most certainly is synchronous and scheduled is 100% certainty that it's going to get done. Then kernis and unscheduled is also getting done, like that's what other my consulting clients or the people that I work with we don't have necessarily every tuesday at one o'clock or whatever it may hey, are you available to talk? You know, on this day and we put it in the calendar and but it's not like recurring, that, it's not locked in obligation. I usually keep my calendar. You know I schedule those things about two weeks out.

And then the next level up then. So that's synchronous and sort of unscheduled, but we'll do it. Then the next thing is asynchronous with a deadline, is likely to get done, but the thing where I want to be is asynchronous at my discretion and that's the most joyful thing, but nothing ever gets done.

Dan: That's the reality, right? Yeah, it's really funny. I was having a conversation about it was with someone at Genius Network. You don't know them and they were talking about how they're really into Zen. Know them, and they were talking about how they're really into zen okay, and and you know the oriental, you know that you detach from, you know physical reality, more or less yes, and, and I said, you know I've read things about them. You know I've read things, but reading things about zen isn't them right you know, it's not them.

You know, and and said the one thing I've noticed about people who are really deeply into Zen they're not real go-getters.

Dean: Interesting yeah.

Dan: Yeah, because for them, the things of the world, they're not really real.

Dean: You know they're sort of delusional.

Dan: And anyway, and I said, I have a really enjoyable engagement with the world. Yes, and it's entrepreneurial, so that makes it more enjoyable. I have nothing in my life that involves dealing with people who are in bureaucratic, private sector, bureaucratic or public sector. I have no nothing to do with anyone like that, and so everyone I mean my entire environment. I'm hearing an enormous amount of sound.

Dean: Sorry about that.

Dan: What I notice is that I live in almost like a complete entrepreneurial universe. I mean both business-wise and also socially you know, so I don't really know much about what's happening outside of the entrepreneurial world. I mean, I read it. I mean I read it on the internet, but it doesn't really impact on me. You know, I mean taxes do, inflation does and everything like that, but not in a serious way. And the exchange rate between the US dollar and the Canadian dollar is very comfortable right now.

Dean: It's about $1.37.

Dan: Okay, yeah, I always enjoy that.

Dean: It's a nice offset.

Dan: Yeah, people say, why do you live in Toronto with the taxes so high? And I says, well, it all depends on where your money is coming from.

Dean: Right right, right right, and you know the patents are.

Dan: We're up to 19 now. We have 19 patents so far. And that has its own asset value. And yeah, so it's really nice right now At 80, it's really at age 80. So it's really nice right now at 80, it's really at age 80. It's really nice.

Dean: Yeah, is that so? I am curious, though, if so, the deadlines. If we think about that progression right Of synchronous and scheduled, synchronous unscheduled with a deadline and asynchronous at your discretion, where's your power zone? Are you able to spend time productively in asynchronous at your discretion, or does what drives your thing be the deadline?

Dan: No, I let other people schedule my life. I let other people schedule my life. Okay, yeah so all the dates in the calendar are someone else's schedule and then they have their schedule for me to get the material in, because it always involves some sort of teamwork.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Before a workshop, you have to get the new artwork in according to the production team's schedule, not my schedule. Right and I have some really good rules with that. If it's 80%, good we're going to go with it, even though. I got a better idea at the last moment. I never load them up with last minute requests because from the audience's standpoint it's 100%. It's only our judgment that is 80%, right, exactly.

Dean: They don't know. It's 100% of what they got. That's exactly right.

Dan: Yeah, I don't know that there was something better that could have been done. They don't know that, so I'm pretty easy with them. Every once in a while there's a last-minute thing and because I never bother them very much, they're up to it. But if it was a steady diet that they had of the last minute, then you'd lose their ability to respond at the last moment. So I never take advantage of that, except there is some situations where you know it's a good idea to do it.

Dean: Yeah, that's exactly right. How much of your time is spent brainstorming and sketching and thinking, like, working out an idea for a thinking tool or the content for a book? Because I imagine that's kind of where it all begins. Right, you're coming to the table, yeah, with the idea this is the book I'm to write, and how much of it is you, uh, I'm really curious about, like because I've discovered you know, my power verbs as part of our discussion through the joy of procrastination.

But what would be? Do you have time like that where you're? Do you have a notebook that you use, or do you sketch, or do you know?

Dan: I'm pretty much um. I'm pretty much a fast filter person, so yes, uh I get the idea and then I go through and I say this is the best result, worst result, and here's the five success criteria.

Dean: And by the time I finish.

Dan: By the time I finish, the first fast filter I'm launched and then it's right into the introduction, the chapter one, chapter two, chapter three, you know.

So yeah but I was talking to a new member of genius network. A great family actually, a father and two sons all joined and it's called the pompa method and it's, you know, getting rid of all the metals in your body and everything. You're living with mold and everything else and so much of sickness comes from heavy metals in your bloodstream and it comes from very, very serious negative impacts of having mold in your house and I think you would be more in danger of that than we would here in toronto.

I think florida's can be sort of damp, you know things. I would say that uncared for physical things in Florida deteriorate pretty fast, don't they?

Dean: Yes.

Dan: And anyway, and he didn't really know me at all, like there was no prior knowledge, when we met and I started talking and he says you know, I'm doing everything well, but not writing books. And he says I have some sort of block to the book. And I said do you have a book in mind? And he says, yeah, I've got notes and notes. And I said you know, the easiest solution to writing your one big book is not do that. What you want to do is write 100 books.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yes, right, yes, book. And he says, well, how do I think about that? And I says, well, do you have a good chapter already? If you were going, to write a good chapter in your you know. You know it's a good idea, it's one chapter, it's one idea. Could you write a book on one idea. And he said yeah, but I've got so much more to say. I said I know you got we all do.

I said we all got a lot more to say, but we don't have to say everything right now. We can say one thing right now and I showed him one of my books and he said, oh my God, oh my God, but it's so short. And I said yeah, and you can read it in an hour.

Dean: I said it's big type too.

Dan: It's 14 point type and it's Helvetica, very easy to read. And it's got lots of subheads. You could get the meaning of the book if you just read the subheads. If you didn't read all the text. Just read the subheads and the titles. You could get the meaning of the book, or you could read the cartoons or you could listen to the audible or you could watch the videos, know everything else.

And it was like he, it was like a religious conversion. And he says, oh my god, I've got so much things that could become small books. And I said, yeah, the ebook. Research indicates that if your book is less than 60 pages, you'll'll get 85% complete readership out of it.

Dean: Mine are 44.

Dan: I only have 44 pages in a book and so, going back to your question, I don't have to do much brainstorming because I've done the same format over now. We're just completing number 38.

Dean: Yes.

Dan: I totally know One of the big problems of writing a book for the first time. Well, how long is it going to be?

Dean: and what are the?

Dan: chapters going to be. I know it's got an introduction, it's got eight chapters and it's got a conclusion, and then it's got a little section on the program in Strategic Coach. And then it's got a little section on the program in Strategic.

Dean: Coach.

Dan: So that's why I like repeating good formats, because you're not doing all this guessing. What's it going to look like? I know, I mean, I know what it's going to look like, I know how long it's going to be, I know what the pages are going to look like I know that. So that forces people to procrastinate and stop and everything else, and I've removed all that execution complexity right up front. And then I've got nine other people who are responsible for the finished product Right right yeah, and. I've got deadlines for them.

Dean: The deadlines.

Dan: You know they're already in the schedule. Basically it's a two-month project to get the book finished and all my deadline dates are in the schedule. They're just presented to me. These are the deadlines I said okay. I'm cool. So see, I'm being managed by other people's schedules and that takes a lot of the uncertainty on my part out of the way.

Dean: Yeah, you know, what's funny is I've been thinking about my, because I'm very reliable in synchronous and scheduled things Meeting deadlines and meeting deadlines. Yeah, I'm never, you're never late, you're never unprepared.

That's exactly right. That's why synchronous and scheduled for sure I would say you're never unprepared chat at somebody's event or as a guest on somebody's podcast, where I don't have to prepare what I'm going to talk about. I do it in the thing and that's why having the format that I've chosen for my More Cheese, less Whiskers podcast is the guest, is the focus, and I've been preparing for this conversation with them for 30 years and I bring all of that with it. I don't have to think about it ahead of time. So synchronous and scheduled, 100% gets done and it's right in my go zone.

What I have been thinking about is if there were a way to think about signing myself to. Have you ever heard the term an FSO contract? It's in the entertainment business. People will contract with a entertainer's company for services of Dan Sullivan. So it'd be entering into a contract with strategic coach FSO Dan Sullivan and that would be a really interesting thing. If I had a way of thinking about myself, detached from myself, as a thing that I could tap into for services of Dean Jackson, it would be an interesting you know, I'm just applying it to myself.

Dan: I don't trust the guy to show up Right, exactly, that's the thing He'll be on the way and he'll see something interesting. And then, yeah, you know you have to track him down. It's too much work, you know but I'm like you I'm very reliable as it comes to you know, you know commitments to other people. I'm very reliable. So I said and it's not work for me to do that. So you know, I just never, ever want to disappoint you know, I just never ever.

Yeah, and but when I'm just dealing with myself, well it's, it's really loosey goosey, you know.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Yeah, He'll find some excuse, you know, you know he's very slippery.

Dean: Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, the neighbor's dog ate the homework. You know, you know, he's very slippery. Yeah, yeah, the neighbor's dog ate the homework you know, everything like that. Yeah, and I I put myself in the gap when I'm doing that, but what I've done is, over the years I've made things I'm really intensely interested in public offerings, in other words, I'm presenting it to an audience and I just things that I'm really intensely interested in. I've connected now with making money.

Dean: Right.

Dan: And you know, the making of money really makes things official.

Dean: Yes, yeah, so yeah, very, I mean it's taken a long time.

Dan: I mean, I'm not saying this, was you know, but more and more as I've gotten lazier.

Dean: Right.

Dan: Anything that I'm actually interested in doing better make money. Right right right, isn't that funny.

Dean: That's still the motivator, even though as time goes on 1600s, early 1700s.

Dan: He said the making of money is probably the most innocent thing that humans can engage themselves, involve themselves with. He said making money it's really clean, you know it's sort of a really clean activity and there's an exchange and you feel a real sense of accomplishment and achievement. You know, there's just something about something where it has to be good for both sides. It's got a much higher energy impact to it.

Dean: It's good for me, it's good for them, and it's not just double the pleasure, it's 10 times the pleasure yeah, and I mean, you know the nice thing about it is that to do it sustainably, there has to be a durable exchange of value. You know it has to be. Yeah, that's what's so? That's what I mean. That's what's so clean about it. Right Is everybody wins yeah.

I love that. That's what I love about marketing, you know, is that it's just such a great. I feel really great about being a connector in businesses who can really add value to people and getting the message out to the people who can need that value as much as possible.

Dan: And you know the thing is, it's actually the creation of something new, that didn't exist and then, once the exchange has been happened, it exists something new has been created and you know, and it's a, it's kind of proof that you're real.

Yes, right, right it's a, it's kind of proof that you're real. Yes, right, right, you know, I mean you have people involved in various you know involvement of psychiatric treatment and you know they said, well, I don't know if the world is real, I don't know if I'm real, and I said well, if you're only asking your opinion, it's going to be hard to pin down.

Dean: Yeah, right on.

Dan: You have to get some proof from someone who's not you that you know that what you do is valuable.

Dean: Yeah, yeah, that's what the that's the true, that's the great thing about capitalism, you know is that it's? Voluntary. It's voluntary, right yeah?

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was watching. You know the Shark Tank guy. He's Canadian, kevin O'Leary. Yeah, yeah, I was seeing him and he was saying he was just telling the protesters on the campus that it's being noted in the job market who these people are and they don't realize the price that they're paying and they have masks. And he said, doesn't matter, we're picking up your eyeballs. He said that every single person who was involved in the january 6th you know the- yes they.

Within about two months, they knew who every individual was and where he was, because the technology is now so good.

And he said. They're being used at the university campuses by the police and everybody else and every one of you who's upsetting campus life and is doing that, it's noted that you were doing this and if your resume tries to present you're a different person from who you are in the student protest, doors just will be closed to you. You will never get any direct message that you were in the protest, but you'll notice over the 10 years after you go to college and go out in the marketplace that you don't have much opportunity and it's a really good talk.

Because he says you think there's no cost to this. There's a big cost to this talk. Because he says you think there's no cost to this, there's a big cost to this. And he says you think you're inflicting the cost on someone else. I have to tell you, over 10 years the cost will be inflicted on you. And I just thought it was a neat little talk.

Dean: Yeah, he's a pretty smart guy, I mean just like as a philosopher, you know.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah and anyway, but I found it interesting that you know this rears up every once in a while. It's a bit like a fever, you know that. But this is very well planned. All these students have been in training for the before they actually show up as a protest. They've been in training by, you know, by activists. You know trainers and the activists who train them are never there. They train them and then you know they're off camera and you know they're tracking down the money sources. These people are being paid, you know. I mean they're actually being paid to do this and everything like that you know and everything like that.

But it's an interesting thing how it's harder and harder to do things in secret these days.

Dean: I was just thinking that, like back in, you know the fifties and sixties, seventies, eighties, even. You know everything now is is on, everything is on camera. You have to assume that you're every move.

Dan: Yeah, they're probably you know, communicating with other people on social media. You know they're yeah they're not just doing this in quiet, for right five, six, five, six days in a row, I mean they what got them out, you know, into the movement was probably social media.

Hey, we're going to do this and nothing else. And you should come to a meeting and we're going to do this. And you know, I think late teens and early 20s people don't think too much about that, you know, they don't really think that it shows up. But we're, you know, in our company, we really do extensive social media searches when we have a job, you know, a job applicant.

Dean: Oh, you do, oh yeah, deep dive.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, deep dive. We had one woman and she came in and you know where our cafe is in the. Toronto office. And she came in and she was sitting out in the, you know, in the reception area and something about her just caught my attention. And then she came in and she was just perfectly done up, you know, I mean her clothes were great.

Dean: And.

Dan: I watched her as she went through the cafe back to Babs' office and I said she's just too perfect. I said there's something wrong here.

And afterwards she left and they were saying, boy, what a resume. She has a resume and everything else. I said there's something too perfect about her. I said I get the sense that something's off about her. So they went searching and they found out that she had a whole separate life as a burlesque dancer. Oh really, wow, that didn't show up. That didn't show up. And she even had a you know like a brand name for who she was in her other work.

She had a completely you know and she was in clubs and they're sort of not public clubs and everything like that and not that there's anything wrong with being a burlesque dancer If that's your, you know. I mean, I mean it's not really my, you know my favorite form of entertainment. But you know, but the fact is that she hid the other part of her life, and that's the sense that I got. There's something too perfect about her. There's another side of her that's not being seen, so it will be discovered.

If you have another life besides the one that you're presenting, it will be, discovered. Yeah, there's no hiding now, right yeah, and the simple way is just be who you are.

Dean: Ah, that's exactly right, that digital split. Yeah, and the simple way is just be who you are. Ah, that's exactly right, that digital split.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, and the people that we really have long-term relationships with invariably are people who just do they. There's not another them. Right, yes exactly Right, right, right yeah. So anyway, did you learn anything about the way I approach things?

Dean: I did. I mean, I think that's you know your organizing context. Like you know, I've been thinking about it in this terms of imagine, if you applied yourself, you know, and this is the applied portion of things and it sounds like your, the fast filter is the gateway into the applied world, right it's?

yeah that's that starts. That makes it real because you're making it up and then you're making it real with a fast filter, yeah. And then that, when presented to your project manager or one of your project managers, you know you use the term, you know I mean executive function.

Dan: You know you're lacking in executive function. I don't think that's true. I think, from a creative standpoint, you retain a lot of total executive function. I think what I've completely delegated to other people is management function.

Dean: Yeah right.

Dan: It's not executive function, it's executive execution function. I've got the starting execution, but then there's got to be a handoff. Starting execution. But then there's got to be a handoff and after the making it up stage then I have to hand it off to other people.

Dean: I used to try to do the management function and I'm just no good at it. Yeah, and you know you're. The thing about the quarterly book is a. You know that's a viable construct. You know that's a durable context, that you're 38 quarters into a hundred quarter adventure, you know yeah, yeah, and that you know. So there's that sort of rhythm, contextual rhythm, that sticks with it.

Dan: Yeah, yeah, that sticks with it.

Dean: Yeah, yeah.

Dan: It's kind of a future time commitment. You know, like I'm not, I'm 40% through a 25-year project, so that means I've got, you know, I've got 2039, that I hit At the end of 2039, I hit quarter number 100, you know yeah right, and you know, and that gives me an incentive to make sure you're there. Yeah, right, exactly. Oh, that's so funny. Whatever it's going to take, make sure you're there, because you know it won't do if it's just 95.

Dean: Right, yeah, no, that's exactly right. I love it. Well, I found this very it sounded very interesting. I appreciate it and I'm very excited about table 10 reunion. Yes, so I'll set that up on the 15th or whatever.

Dan: Yeah, you know what I'll do is. I'll say to the Maitre D just for today, can this be table 10?

Dean: Yes exactly.

Dan: It's only table 10 when Dean and Dan are there, that's exactly right.

Dean: I know exactly where the table is, no matter what we call it, it's still there. I mean it's still there, I'm going to put it in Dan at 1130 on the 15th Perfect Table 10. Table 10. Dan at 11.30 on the 15th Perfect Table 10. Table 10. I like that.

Dan: All right.

Dean: Okay, thank you, so much Are we on next week Yep. We'll be back from Nashville Perfect.

Dan: Yeah, we get back on Saturday, so this is great.

Dean: Perfect.

Dan: Well.

Dean: I'm sorry I'm going to miss the big birthday bash, but I'm sure it'll be wonderful and we'll have exciting things to talk about next week. Yeah.

Dan: Yeah, good.

Dean: Thanks Dan.

Dan: Okay, bye.