Welcome to Cloudlandia

Ep112: The Hidden Links Between AI and Media Evolution

December 27th, 2023

In today's Welcome to Cloudlandia episode, we embark on an intriguing exploration of the realm of AI and technology.

We examine fascinating experiments involving text conversion to a unique speech structure that aligns with your heartbeat.

Lastly, we delve into discussions around marketing education and share snippets from our upcoming trip.



  • We discuss the transformative impact of artificial intelligence on content creation, exploring how it's being utilized in Hollywood and our personal experiment of converting a book chapter into Iambic Contameter with the help of AI and a Shakespearean actor.

  • Dean highlights a fascinating experiment conducted in the Soviet Union where foxes were genetically modified into dogs, shedding light on the intriguing topic of canine intelligence and their comprehension of human language.

  • Dan and I delve into the evolution of television, discussing its early stages where it was used to re-enact radio shows, and its transition to the current landscape of diverse media platforms like Facebook.

  • We share insights on the challenges of implementing strategies in businesses and how we've addressed them in our own ventures, highlighting our successful thought leadership newsletter and real estate accelerator program.

  • Dan emphasizes the importance of normalizing new technological advancements in the realm of AI, arguing that the future doesn't arrive until we've normalized it.

  • We touch on the concept of hierarchy versus network in corporations and ponder on the potential obsolescence of middle management jobs due to AI advancements.

  • We discuss the role of AI in marketing strategy, underlining the significance of identifying high margin products and generating leads for potential customers.

  • We express concern over the current state of higher education and speculate on its potential crisis in the face of rising vocational training and AI.

  • We delve into the future of work and systems, discussing how AI is making certain jobs obsolete, particularly in the middle white-collar sector, and how it's affecting the education system.

  • Finally, we briefly discuss our upcoming trip to Buenos Aires, sharing our excitement and some interesting facts about the time difference and geographical position of South America.

  • Links:



    (AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

    Dan: Wow.

    Dean: Mr Sullivan, wow, yes, Recorded entrance grad it's so good. We're living in increasingly turbulent times.

    Dan: That's true, but I'll tell you what the great thing about it is. At this particular moment, at this particular outpost in the mainland, it's the absolute perfect temperature. The fourth season of the Valhalla, absolutely like room temperature, with a slight breeze, quiet, six, perfect.

    Dean: Well, at our global domination compound in Toronto, we're having a perfect whole day.

    Dan: A whole domination compound. That is true.

    Dean: I don't want to own the whole thing, I don't want to own the whole world, I just want all the property next to mine.

    Dan: I was excited about your idea of getting the house behind you to have that whole drive through, but they give it up on that.

    Dean: That might bring the furies down on us. So far we've escaped scrutiny, anyway, yeah. Well, one thing that I thought would be interesting is kind of a Cloudlandia. It's that Taylor Swift's movie, her tour movie, has done, I think, worldwide with you, as down 150 million in two weeks and both weeks.

    Dan: Yeah, she's only playing it Thursday to Sunday because she doesn't want kids neglecting homework, so she doesn't. You can't go see it on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. You can only go see it.

    Dean: Well, I think she neglected hers and where she is Exactly, but I think she's alone Brilliant, I mean the fact that her tour alone.

    Dan: Her live tour was one of the biggest tours ever. Now the recording of it. I think she's going to make another billion dollars with it.

    Dean: Yeah, but the interesting thing about it is she bypassed Hollywood altogether which is the mainland, and they just wanted their 20% for being Hollywood, and she just bypassed it. And that comes right after the strike that shut everything down, for one of the griefs being, of course, being live streaming, the other one probably being the AI that's replacing a lot of the 80% work in Hollywood. In other words, first draft scripts and everything else can now get done with AI, and then you bring in the craftsman to actually, you know, take it the final 20%, yeah, and these are definitely.

    Dan: I think that's a seed there, true. I think that's especially true, dan, for content. You know, let's call it streaming or television or documentary content, that is, book report content. That is like writing a. You know, if we were to do a documentary about the you know evolution of print starting with Putin or starting with the you know Chinese on papyrus, you know back in 1012 or whatever, A long time ago, that I think that that would be the kind of thing where AI would be able to write a script research, write a script.

    That would be 80% of what you would need to do a compelling documentary about that, compared to the creative act of creating something new. You know, I don't know.

    Dean: Yeah it's really interesting. On a previous episode I told you about the little experiment I'm doing with converting my chapters of this particular book. So this is my book number 36 and the 36th quarter, and it's called Everything, everyone and Everything Grows. That's the name of the book.

    It's the backstage. It's the backstage description of strategic coach since 1989. We put our backstage together and as I was going through, I've been reading a lot of books on Shakespeare and there's something consciousness altering about the speech structure that they used. It wasn't just Shakespeare, it was of the time. It was, you know, around 1600 in Great Britain. It was called Iambic Contameter and it was 10 beats per line.

    Okay, and Mike Canig's, knowing that I'm interested in this, sent an article which has to do with they've scientifically proved that Iambic Contameter actually your heart, matches the beats. After you listen to a minute or two somebody doing Iambic Contameter, your heartbeat gets in sync with it. The 10 beats.

    Dan: Is that right?

    Dean: Yeah, because it's thumb, you know, and anyway. So I had. I've got a great team member by the name of Alex Barley, and Alex is from the UK, he lives in Toronto but he was actually born in Sherwood. Born and grew up in Sherwood Forest which is an interesting fact. Yeah, sherwood Forest is a big area and then among the trees there's seven little towns and he was born in one of the towns.

    Dan: And his father actually has.

    Dean: His father actually has a club that opened in 1604.

    Dan: So and remember we have. We have someone in strategic culture. Does those forests getaways?

    Dean: or has Gary Fletcher? He's in Friso.

    Dan: He's actually yeah, yeah.

    Dean: Yeah and anyway. So I had him take a chapter that was on unique ability and unique ability teamwork and I had him converted into Iambic Contameter. And it was startling to get it back, because all the ideas are there but the ideas are put together in a different way. And it was just. I just found it fascinating and I said, boy, if I had a really great Shakespearean actor, you know, somebody who could really speak the language and listen to it rather than just, yeah, reading it.

    So I was talking to Alex about it and I said my favorite would be Richard Birkin, okay, and? And he said, see, I really wouldn't know how to do that. So we went to Mike Canix and Mike knew how to do it. And so Mike gave Alex a couple sites where you could go to and experiment with them.

    And about two days later from the time of my request to Alex, I got back Richard Burton. And it was Richard Burton, it was totally Richard Burton, and I've listened to it about 15, 15 times, and every time I listen to it it has a greater impact. And I played it for team members and the team members say, boy, I'd like to have that to listen to before I go to bed at night and everything like that. And so I asked him and did it. You know, when you first made the translation, in other words, you had the AI voice he says no, it was just, it was just sort of mechanical. And he says so what I did is I got actual recordings of Richard Burton and I would listen to it and then I would go through and I would change the timing, I would change.

    And he says I put in some breath intakes and he said I would you know? He says he rushes ahead, then he speeds up, and then he does it's very unpredictable with Richard Burton and he did this all. So it's actually AI times. The craftsman.

    Dan: That's a.

    Dean: B percent plus the human craftsman, you know, because a human ear, you know, just has infinitely greater sensitivity to how things actually work than they calculated. You know a mechanical thing and went to it. It went to deliver it evenly.

    Dan: You know and.

    Dean: Richard Burton in particular, has the way of making words explode just by saying the word and then he was kind of built a delivery to William Shatner in a way like different. Yeah but I had never put yeah, I'd never put William Shatner and Richard together in my brain, yeah but the interesting thing about it. The interesting thing about it was we've done two chapters now and you could see Alex is getting more inventive and you know, and he's really getting into the poetry and it's in rhyme. So with iambic pentameter.

    You can have it as prose or you can have it as rhyme and. I said well, since we're going the route of Richard Burton, I should put it in. But I was struck because I'm only going to use this for backstage with coach. I'm only going to use this with, and the Baron of the Four Seasons, valhalla, I might talk to the warlord talk to the warlord there, I mean, because he's almost backstage, anyway, anyway, but it just does something.

    But what I'm noticing is changing my writing style as I go forward, because I've got that voice in my ear and I'm writing that to sort of meet the voice halfway, you know halfway.

    Dan: Oh, that's right.

    Dean: Yeah that it's an easy pick up. I mean I can't talk like that, I don't sound like that and everything, but it's how I am doing. My writing has been changing as I've listened listening to Richard Burton telling me what it sounds like in Shakespeare's age.

    Dan: This is. You know, a couple of things jump out at me. You know, as you're talking about that and Alex's joy in tinkering, and you know it's a creative act. Using these, using owning technology like a good dog yes, Right. That's really what he's doing there.

    Dean: Yeah.

    Dan: And it reminded me of Peter Diamand is talking about these cent powers, the chess masters, paired with an AI that they can override or direct or run things by, or amplify their calculations or confirm their hunches. That's really the way forward, isn't it? It seems like that's the.

    Dean: Well, what it suggests is that if you're a mechanical human being, this new form of mechanical will wipe you out, but if you decide to take refuge in being creative, they'll probably just offer you a deal.

    Dan: Yeah, I mean it's interesting, what's there? There are a hybrid for this, like a creative machine or a. I mean there's something here, because even the AI is not doing it on its own. Some people are going to distance themselves. What we've seen mechanics do is distance themselves as a skilled operator of these new advantages.

    Dean: Yeah, it's really interesting. There was an interesting lab test that was done in the Soviet Union before the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was that they wanted to see if they could turn a fox, turned foxes, into dogs. They could do it through basically two-year generations. In other words, a fox had two years old as a fully grown fox.

    So you just have a two-year from birth to adulthood and they went through 10 generations where each generation they picked a fox that was more docile, it didn't have aggressive, it wasn't paranoid, it was sort of friendly and docile. And by the 10th generation, the genetic product GMO, had enormous number of dog characteristics. It was friendly, it would come up and it would take dog characteristics and they decided to put the dog fox or the fox dog and an actual dog and they chose I think it was a German shepherd, and they put it through a and this.

    They had it in the puppy stage, so it was about six to eight months old, and they put it through an obstacle course that they was designed so that the animal couldn't solve it. They would hit a wall where they just couldn't solve it.

    And it was very interesting that the fox dog, when confronted with the final barrier, just curled up, went feral. He just went into a, wrapped himself up. He was just defeated and he wrapped up. The moment that the dog actually hit the thing he turned around and he searched out his owner and he says hey buddy, hey buddy, I need your help here. Okay, your turn, yeah. And they said they don't know if they can teach that, they don't know if they can. Actually they can genetically.

    Dan: I was just writing. It's funny when you said that I was writing down nature versus nurture. But what was it that they change it genetically to modify it? But were they also? But they didn't, they couldn't Domesticated it.

    Dean: They couldn't genetically reproduce the teamwork that's probably part of the inheritance of dogs. In other words, they trace it back 30,000 years since humans domesticated wolves to produce dogs, and that's a lot of generations of canines.

    And anyway, but it tells me kind of that's why I wrote the book Owning Technology Like a Great Dog is that we've got We've got this 30,000 year experience in the animal stew of kind of working out teamwork with dogs and certain breeds are better, certain breeds are good for this, certain breeds are good for that and we've kind of developed kind of a real deep knowledge.

    And they can do about 150 different tasks at this stage. Some of them can know as much as a thousand words. If you say a word, they know exactly what it refers to. It always refers to an object. It refers to an activity. They're not high on the concept level, I hope they have a good memory of.

    Dan: Have you seen those? Yeah, and there's concepts of people setting up all these buttons on their floor that are labeled that a dog can push the yellow thing and it says a single word like walk, and so it knows to push that when it wants to go for a walk or a treat it can push treat, and I wondered about whether that, I mean it, seems real. So you're kind of confirming that they are able to build that kind of vocabulary.

    Dean: Yeah, there was a professor in, I think, south Carolina. He was near retirement and he was a psychology professor and he just wanted to see how many words and he got sort of a border collie type. Border collies are just super smart and they're super responsive. And he got the dog to a thousand words of everyday objects. The dog you could. He knew all the dog's names, of all the dogs in the neighborhood, and the dog had a very definite opinion about each one of them.

    Dan: So he said Max.

    Dean: If he said Max, his tail would wag, and if he said Irving, it would just go.

    Dan: Doesn't like Irving.

    Dean: First of all, you know right off the bat that a dog gets named Irving. It probably has a difficult environment. Why would you do that? But Fred Feisman I don't know if you've ever met him. He's a coach client, probably 15 years.

    Dan: He's in 10 times.

    Dean: And he was a cowboy in British Columbia for 10 years.

    Where every May he and another cowboy would take out 3,000 head of cattle and move them through elevations of pasture land. So in British Columbia you can have 4 levels of 4 levels, you know, geological levels, okay, and that would take them out to the high grazing area and then they would gradually bring them in. And so it was Fred. It was a partner and a dog. And I said if you had to lose one of them, the dog or the partner, which one, which one would you lose? He said lose the partner, just me and the dog could take care of all 3,000.

    Because the dog always knew which steer was the lead steer and would get the lead steer. He also knew the route. He also knew the route and plus he checked for predators like wolves, coyotes, bears and everything else, and you know, would you apply?

    Dan: Why are tigers?

    Dean: and bears. Oh my yeah.

    Dan: Yeah.

    Dean: And so, but it was really interesting. He said a great trail dog is it's you know. He says you can't put a price on how good they are, but they're not doing anything more than they were taught.

    Dan: Right, yeah, that's interesting. I just got my. I got a I bought with my copy of how they use technology like a good dog. I don't own technology like a good dog, so I'm looking forward to reading it. I mean, yeah, that's really about Gotten to dive in there.

    Dean: Ownership. I mean, it's not a question of owning technology or owning your dog you actually own your rights, right, yeah, and you know, it's really about ownership more than it's about dogs or technology.

    You know, but the big thing is that I think that in learning how to interact with AI, we're going to learn about learn a lot about what human intelligence actually is. I think we're going to learn more from this interaction than we've learned from all the psychological studies possible, because it's going to be interactive all the time against the best result, you know, and correspondingly, I mean we'll have more knowledge about it, but more knowledge about us will be built into the programming of the AI.

    Dan: Have you seen anything recently that has wowed you or changed your opinion about the usefulness or the future of AI? Like this, like in terms of sounds, like your Richard Burton experience has shaped some new enthusiasm.

    Dean: Well, what I get is that all the breakthroughs will be specific. It'll be individual and specific. So right now I don't know how many in the first two or three months, you know, plugged into chat, gpt, and then, of course, there's hundreds of other there's hundreds of others, specialized AI, and my sense is that it's transforming the world, but there would be no overview on how that's happening, because it's happening in a hundred million different situations in a different way.

    Dan: So if anything so the ability to have an oversight or an overview of this, I think it was impossible on day one, yeah, and it reminded me of like, as I was kind of reflecting on it is I mean the use that I'm using of.

    Dean: Who would think of that? And right, there wouldn't be anyone else, that would even well. If, why would you do that? And I said I found it kind of neat.

    Dan: Yeah, you know I was looking at it, thinking back on like this, as one of the major things of the big change of 1975 to 2025 that. Ai as the platform. I don't know whether platform is the right word or what it is just like. Television was a. That was the big capability that was brought and started out with. You know, just the ability to, you know, have the three national channels and broadcast things.

    But in the earliest stages of television, nobody really knew what to do with it in, in that they were just bringing radio to television. They were re-enacting, like turn the camera on and do radio theater.

    Dean: Yeah yeah, I mean, I remember the 1950s sort of programs that were kind of dramatic and they'd have the opening of the curtain. They'd have the opening of the curtains, you know, and because they well, they're putting on a show.

    Dan: So what do you do?

    Dean: Well, you, but yeah, and. But here's the thing that the networks were still networks that were broadly shared, you know they were in competition with each other. But it was. You were on one network, you're on the network, I think, with you're on a billion different networks you know, and each of them each of the networks is being uniquely custom designed for particular purposes by particular people for you know, and everything like that, and my sense is the whole notion that there's going to be an overarching system like Facebook or something like that.

    I don't see that happening.

    Dan: I mean.

    Dean: I'm guessing embedding. And you know, I'm guessing embedding, just like everyone else. But I don't really care how other people are using it, I only care how I'm going to use it.

    Dan: Yeah yeah, yeah, I think that's and you probably got. You've probably cornered the market on turning thinking tools into Richard Burton. Readings of Iambic pentameter.

    Dean: Yeah, you know, I want to see if anybody's trailing me, and I haven't picked up on anything so far.

    Dan: It's a blue ocean strategy.

    Dean: Yeah, the other one we're doing. I don't know if you know Joe Stolti. He's. Joe is the runner of the. You know, the AI newsletter that Evan Pagan and Peter Diamand.

    Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Joe 100K yeah. Yeah.

    Dean: So I met, I met Joe at 100K and he just said what it will do, and so we've been going. Now I think we've got 12 episodes out and they do an interview with you online. You know thought leadership, other people you like, articles you like and everything else. And then they keep fine tuning what it is that you really want. But our last we've had in the last seven episodes we've had five of them with more than an 80% open rate for the entire issue.

    And then, and we had one I had one interview. It was a podcast interview with Mike Canix. We got a 95% open rate. Okay.

    Dan: That's wild.

    Dean: And it takes no work on our part. It creates the issue you know, so it gives you the results from your previous issue and then it shows you what the next issue is, based on the rates of the last issue. But, you're learning a lot about what we're learning a lot about what people really like listening to and what they like. You know, so it's an interesting thing.

    Dan: And he's great to work with.

    Dean: I really like him and his team. So yeah, it's called dailycom, I think it's called dailycom. Okay, yeah, it's great, yeah, it's great, and I mean we'll put out probably.

    Dan: Well, you like the idea of not having to do anything. That's happening. That's pretty good Well it's all existing creativity.

    Dean: A lot of it is existing articles that's existing. So we're repurposing I mean, we're getting a repurpose out of existing articles and all the content is original content.

    Dan: You know I love that I'm just realizing that's for guessing and betting people's fondness for things that do the things they would like to do, especially if it's things that they would do if they could count on them to do it. You know, that's kind of a there's a good thing there. We recently in my Go agent world here our realtor we've launched the new real estate accelerator program. Where we're actually doing it's a who, not how, model of implementing the listing agent lifestyle elements in someone's business. So I've created that framework of the you know core five things that people you know the bankable results that they can get referrals and multiply their listings, get convert leads, find buyers, get listing. Those things I've got you know core programs and shortcuts and programs for them to do them.

    I was having in conversation with Diane, the who kind of runs that division with me, she I was saying you know, what we've been doing is we've been selling gym memberships essentially to Go agent, where we've got all of the stuff, all the tools, all the IP, everything you need to implement it, and you just come on in and access it and do what you do what you want, and we observe that very few people you know actually do the stuff that we know, this is the secret sauce of gym memberships 40% never go up.

    They pay for the whole year and never show up once.

    That's exactly so. We're running that same model and for someone you know, I like to see people get the results, you know. And so I've been doing these you know workshops where I thought, okay, we'll do these implementation workshops where we'll spend you know five weeks and we'll do a weekly session on each of the things as like a booster to get you focused on here's what to do, kind of thing. And I observed we've done that for a year and realized that improves the, that improves the implementation, but still overwhelmingly people are not able to rally themselves to do the things that they know to do. And so we decided, well, what if we just did it for them?

    And I recorded a video. I said you know? I said you know, I realized that I would be a really great real estate VA if I came to work for you and did all the things that I know in your business. And I said I know how to. I've been spending 35 years putting all of these pieces together and I know exactly what to do. And I went through and I outlined here's what I would do if I came into your business, because I realized that really we could implement all of it in somebody's business with one synchronous 30 minute, you know, check in at a fixed time with somebody that would then see, you know, three to five hours of implementation in a week, kind of thing for it and I was sharing it that it's like having a personal trainer instead of just a gym membership. You're meeting a personal trainer at the gym and the difference is that we're going to do the six, the sit ups, and you're going to get the six pack.

    That's really how the difference and every single person I've talked to, dan is on board with this, because of course you're selling the reward. We do the sit ups, you get the six pack.

    Dean: Yeah, you're selling the. You're selling the impact without the effort.

    Dan: Exactly right.

    Dean: Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, yeah but you know there's still. I bet, if you work out your percentages, even that people won't go for. You know, because they have an escape from fantasy land about who they are and what they want to achieve. You know, one of the things that Peter Diamanas has the sixties regarding the digital revolution you know digitize the deceptive, the demonetization, dematerialization. There's democratization yeah, yeah well as the sixth one, I'm saying yeah, it's democratization in that the possibility as democratic, the utilization follows the same as anything that 10% will outdo 90%.

    Dan: Yeah, I think that's true. You know there's so many everybody. That's a really interesting thing that there's just like in truth. You know, in political democracy there's opportunity, but not everybody takes advantage of it. Everybody has the opportunity to have a YouTube channel and reach the entire world, but there's only one, mr B.

    Dean: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you know, he's number two in the YouTube world. I think there's somebody who's got more. I don't know who it is, but he's got the last one. I heard 201 million subscribers, followers 201 million.

    Dan: Yeah, I think he's the number one individual. I think, yeah, yeah.

    Dean: Yeah, yeah. Well, it's very interesting. You know the good for a young guy. You know, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, you know he's got a future, this guy. He's going places, you know you can tell him almost right away. He can tell him almost.

    you just get a feel Anyway the but the thing that I'm talking about, you know, I mean, the thing that I'm feeling is that I had a line one day. Peter Diamonis and I were going back and forth and he was talking about the future this, the future that, and I said you know what I've noticed about the future? When you get there, it feels normal.

    Dan: Yes.

    Dean: Huh, as a matter of fact, it doesn't arrive until you've normalized it.

    Dan: Yeah, can you say more about that, because that led you to that Well we don't like abnormal.

    Dean: Humans don't like abnormal. They like normal. Okay, and if you're asking them to do something new, that's different.

    Uh you have to show them how to go through a normalization process where they get used to it. You know they get used to it and that's why I've been noticing that tech. Every company right now has to appoint a chief AI officer. A chief AI officer Ooh Dean, where would this person be? You know, I mean, where would this person? I mean, I mean, do you even have room or space for a chief AI officer? Okay, and I said no. I said why don't you just bring in somebody smart who shows your entire team how they particularly, and what they're doing can do this or that or this and this and let them lose, you know, and see what comes out of it and see what comes out of it?

    And why don't you just have self-empowered you know, self-empowered team members, you know in person or virtual, you know, or remote, and just have them say, you know is, where could, what's the 20% that if you could get rid of it, which is it still needs to get done, what would it be? And then say, well, there's an AI program that can do this, or is an AI program do this. They get that 20% done. They say, well, what's the next 20%? And just keep them going for 50 years.

    Dan: Yeah, and that's what. That's the approach.

    Dean: We don't have a chief AI officer. First of all, we don't have anyone who's called chief and we don't have anyone who's called officer, because that sounds like had chief officer, you know, I think the Gestapo had chief something officer, you know, you know, and everything. I don't like cheap something officer, I just don't like the sound of it.

    Dan: That's not good for anybody.

    Dean: Oh, you know, right off the bat I get the willies.

    Dan: That's funny. Yeah, let's say so. How? What are you doing in that, then? Do you have someone whose role is helping the team become a no, we brought in Evan Ryan.

    Dean: He did a six module course how to think it through and then he's off and running, you know, and he checks in and you know with the latest stuff of if they're doing this and they can look at that. So we have. You know, we have a already operating system in the company that's called unique ability teamwork.

    You know, everybody's in their unique ability and everybody's doing a different aspect of necessary activity in the company and they're all coordinating with each other. So it's virtually impossible for us to have a chief something officer, because that's not the way the company works.

    Dan: Right, not a hierarchy.

    Dean: It's not a hierarchy, it's a network.

    Dan: Yeah, that's interesting, I mean.

    Dean: I'm not even. I'm not even chief. It's just that Dan has certain unique abilities. He's really good at coming up with new stuff. So where do you get, you know, any, especially new stuff that's offered to the public and we get paid for it, you know. Right so you know, you know, I'm not a boss in any meaningful way, except I'm the one to define what the next projects are.

    Yeah, but oh hefe Right, yeah, I think corporations are going to have real hard time with this. I think anything that's a hierarchy and because there's one person at the top and there's a lot of middle people down to the bottom and I get a sense it's useful at the very top and it's used at the very, but in the middle I think all those jobs are fair game to get rid of.

    Dan: Have you been following Salim? Well, not new, but kind of expansion on the exponential organizations, like you're seeing.

    Dean: Yeah, I spent two days with him and you know, 100K? Yeah, because we were out to dinner on Friday night and we were sitting together and talking about it. But you know, the model is from my standpoint. It's a big organization model. It's not really. I mean because you got about 13 things that you have to check off and you and I personally are done after three.

    Dan: Right, yeah, it requires somebody who's like it almost feels like just achieve an exponential. That's what I was just going to say. Yeah, yeah it almost needs to be, I mean.

    Dean: I like Salim's a great guy to talk to. Yeah great thing. But I think he gets the big bucks from the big corporations. I don't think he gets the. You know he doesn't get the money like we get the money at the, not from entrepreneurs right, we're street level.

    Dan: We're street level. Men are the people really? Yeah, we're house lawyers. Oh, my goodness, it's so fun again. You know I get such joy out of that. You know, like the I've been. You know I go to a cafe here called Honeycomb Bread Bakers and they you know one of you learn the crowd and the people there was. There used to be a coffee shop called N plus, one which was the yeah yeah, so I would go there all the time and N plus, that was pre COVID, wasn't it?

    Dean: That was pre COVID.

    Dan: And yeah, and during COVID.

    Dean: Yeah, let's say kind of hit the wall during.

    Dan: They didn't really recover from that in terms of it being a profitable business. They were attached to their bike shop, which was the main, and the idea is invite. Yeah, the idea was N plus one is the equation, for you know how many coffees should you have, which is N equal the number of coffees you've had today Plus one. That's how many.

    Dean: And so I got to know the owner, Peter Zion, was saying that when you lived on a farm you had as many children as you could plus one. And somebody asked him well, what's the plus one for? To know that you've had too many. Same thing with coffee, I think.

    Dan: You know, the fun thing is that riding a bicycle is a decidedly mainland adventure and they serve an area and the 15 mile zone. What are you calling it? The bubble.

    Dean: you know, and do they have like bike paths and everything?

    Dan: Oh, there's like paths all over Winterhaven. Yeah, lots of great places.

    But, so over coffee a couple of weeks ago he was asking for some marketing advice. Like think I mean to ramp things up. I went through this concept of you know the before, the during and the after unit and you know largest check and I could ask you know what's the best if I could just line people up the door right now? Who would you want? What would what's the highest margin thing? And it was eBikes is the thing. Yeah, I said so.

    I have a learning that I've had from working with a bathroom boutique client in Miami and I've learned from doing this that putting a catalog together is a really great lead generator. Right Objective data is all, rather than trying to convince people that they should buy a bike and put there because they were running ads that were like, hey, where's the bike shop? Here we are, we're in Winterhaven and you know bikes are great kind of thing. Getting their name out there and I shared with him the concept of and value of getting their name in here rather than getting your name out there. Let's get the names, let's gather the names of everybody who's interested in e-bikes and I proposed putting together this e-bike catalog with them, and so we did that.

    We put that on my Facebook. I put up the ads forum and we're generating e-book our e-bike catalog downloads for $1.66 each. So he said to him like you put this in the thing it's like for let's just give some room for improvement for our cost of the ads to go up. But let's say that we can get 100 people to metaphorically raise their hand and say, hey, I'm interested in an e-bike for $150. We can get 100 of them to raise their hand and his average margin on an e-bike is around $600 to $700. And so it doesn't take many of those to engage with and them to buy a bike.

    It's kind of funny. It's like that I still I get as much joy out of that as doing something with a big national company that's got.

    Dean: I think the big thing that I'm getting and this is not going cloud landing discussion is you're growing understanding of exactly who you want to talk to and the continual evolution of people knowing exactly who they want to hear Actually, who they want to hear and that bypasses an incredible amount of bureaucracy, I mean if you think about the sheer amount of bureaucracy In my sense, is that the current extreme polarization in what's called polarization, political polarization and cultural polarization, is that I think that the probably three or four generations who took the root of high education, so in other words, starting in nursery school, they were competing to get into a great kindergarten and compete to get into a great primary school, to get into a great university, to get into a great high school which got you to the university and the graduate school, that they're imperiled.

    I think that they're imperiled. On the other hand, an 18 year old who, after graduation with no thought of university at all takes a 10 week welding certification course, is making anywhere between 60 and 100,000 at the end of the, and he's the buyer or she's the buyer. She's the buyer because and probably you know within 10 years they're making a million. They're making a million and they're bypassing the higher education. All because the higher education is about abstractions, but AI is about extreme specificity.

    It's about extreme specificity and I think that a lot of the uprising on universities and the polarization and the cancel culture is they don't want to hear news about anything else except what they've been promised lies at the end of the rainbow the abstraction rainbow, and it's just a general unsettling. You know and and I mean think about it you were in school from four years old to, let's say, 26 years old and have run up. I mean it cost you an incredible amount if you could pay for it, or it cost you an incredible amount and you know loans and you're a quarter million, or 400, a quarter million, or you're $400,000 in debt when you graduate.

    Dan: Yeah, yeah.

    Dean: And then you learn that there's a new technology that's just going to make everything you did for the last 22 years irrelevant, including you.

    Dan: Yeah, yeah, right, right, right.

    Dean: So my sense is that it's the middle white collar, you know the whole middle white collar, part of the economy that's going to get clobbered but not at the high end, where people are really creative, or at the end, where people are really handy. You know where people are really handy.

    Dan: I think that they're completely safe, even things like you know legal associates, like people who are, you know, in big law firms. You know the first session year both the involved do, slaving away in the library looking up case law.

    Dean: Yeah, or contract contract, you know, yeah, and I mean there's somebody that a test of a particular deed on a particular property in another state that required about inputs from about seven different things, which generally takes about three and a half to four weeks to get the whole three, and the AI program did it in like 15 minutes start to finish and it was completely accurate and I mean it was really really sort of had involved and it's blessed entry.

    Dan: Very well. So what do these have? Like the Pretty amazing, isn't it? I mean well, like we're living in the future, it's we're normalizing that.

    Dean: Well, we're normalizing it on an individual basis, we're not normalizing it on a group basis.

    Dan: Yeah, yeah, I think that it's only the front runners you mean that are Seeing that?

    Dean: no, it's just an alert, curious, responsive, resourceful individual who's got a particular thing in mind. And they found those new way of multiplying their Productivity, multiplying their profitability you know and you know. So yeah, but see, everybody I had, I was, we were in Chicago last week and we have a G, you know, in general practice she's an internist and she's our. Chicago doorway to any kind of specialty that we need, you know, specialty medicine.

    And she's going concierge November oh nice tonight and and Because we've been with her for about 15 years, you know and. I can tell that the weight of the Disease management Industry is weighing down on her.

    Dan: We don't have a healthcare system.

    Dean: What we have is a disease management.

    Right you know and and so, and I could tell she was lighter. I mean, she's had this light, energetic feel about her and welcome to the entrepreneurial world. You know, welcome. I said you get paid for what you ask. You know you get paid for what you asked. And she says well, you know, I'm really worried about the fact that the people who Don't have the access to you and I said you were worried about that before, I said 99.9% of you didn't have access to you you know, before this happened, including you didn't have access to you before this. Now you get access to you and I said that's the only change here.

    And I said there but You're going to get pickier and pickier about who gets to see you and everything. And I said it's just very natural. And she says yeah, but the whole system, I mean how? I said her name's on me and I said I mean there is no system, the biggest, there are 10 million systems and you're one of them.

    You're a planet, planet, I said. The biggest fallacy is this is industrial thinking from 1900 to 1950, that there's a system, there is no system. You know, and I said there there are no systems, there's just. There's just connected local neighborhoods.

    Dan: So you're what you're saying really reminds me of of Ray Dalio's you know understanding of the market and saying how you know the way we talk about the auto market, what that really is just an aggregate Construct of all the individual micro transactions. Oh yeah one person buying one car, and you're saying the same, that I feel that Same way that there's no system. The system is just made up, yeah, of this aggregate of the individual micro transactions between one person with Very precise medical needs, seeking them from one person.

    Dean: Yeah. Yeah, yeah and the it's like climate. There is no climate people said yeah, and I said the climate is just a 360 day average of what the temperatures were. You know, yeah, and what the precipitation was and what the wind was, every day being entirely different from the other 364 and in order to get some sense of it. You call it, you average it and we got to have a name for that, so they call it climate. There is no climate, there's just a lot of temperature, right right right.

    There's just a lot of weather. I've only experienced weather. I've never experienced climate.

    Dan: Climate is this.

    Dean: System weather is reality. Yeah, so I think the whole notion of systems, you know, you know, I mean there's some big tools which are being used in common, but you know, like, the dollar is the reserve currency rate you know, and and everything else, but everybody's using dollars differently. They're using dollars for different reasons. You know and, and or English, the English language, and there's no uniparty around the world. There's about a hundred different versions of English. You know because it's it's the one language that you can get along Extremely well-speaking, badly.

    Dan: That's funny. Yeah, yeah, true, can't do that with can't do that with French.

    Dean: I can tell you, you can't do that with French. Yeah, but that's the language of romance. Yeah, so why did you get out of this? I mean, we windered a bit today, which is our favorite activity Absolutely.

    Dan: I think that's. I think that's fantastic. I haven't thought about the relationship between the system and the market in that parallel way that Ray Dalio and I think that really, you know it does come down to you know, being able that's really what it is being able to use whatever means to get an outcome for People. You know I'm bullish about the future here.

    Dean: Yeah, now I'm just trying to think I can do it next week, because, no, I can't do it next week. I'm on my way to Nashville next week. So I but I can do it two weeks from now and I'll be in Buenos Aires, argentina.

    Dan: Okay. I will be here and I will be anxious to hear about your Buenos Aires experience. Will you have had the experience? When we talk?

    Dean: No, will you?

    Dan: be there.

    Dean: We got an overnight flight on Saturday Okay, weeks from now and and then it starts on Monday, so I'll this would be the. We're two hours ahead of you, so time-wise, buenos Aires is two hours ahead of where you are future and, yeah, all of South. Here's an interesting thing about you know where London Ontario is. Of course, because yeah lived halfway there. But anyway all of South America sits east of London, Ontario. Yeah wild right, you think it's underneath.

    North, I know it isn't it that goes way to the east? Actually, brazil is only a thousand miles from Africa. That's crazy. Yeah, two-hour flight from. Africa to Brazil.

    Dan: Yeah anyway, well then, I will be here with bells on and I will look forward to it.

    Dean: You know what? And we're both ten quick starts. We're both ADD. And that's a prescription. That's a prescription for no system. That's exactly right.

    Dan: They're like holy so all right. Okay, two weeks for me. Okay, okay, bye, bye, bye you.